spk_0:   0:01
the person I'm describing. She worked with someone who knew the founder of IBM Fight. He worked for him for a period of time. That would be Thomas Watson senior and that same person that she worked with also work with the second CEO of IBM. That would be Thomas Watson Jr She also spent a 10 year time period working with W. Edwards Deming. Oh, and by the way, she knows Verne Harnisch. I will let you in on the secret in just a bit. Welcome to CFO. Audiobook marks the voice for continued growth and learning for financial leaders Now host Mark Gandhi. Okay, I'm keeping you a suspense. So here's the history. Back in about 2007 thereabouts, I came across the book managing by the numbers Ah, by Kramer, Rizzuto and John Case. And in that book, there is a framework called the Mobley Matrix, the Mobley matrix, which focused the three of bottom lines. Ah, profit cash flow and our away. So what does a book attic do? Well, I was curious. Did Mobley did he ever write a book? And sure enough, he did. It's called beyond IBM, and there are actually two chapters in the out of print book that go into detail about the Mobley matrix. And by the way, there's a co author and I'm looking and it says Kate McCune and wonder Is she still around? So I did a little searching and I found a cape McCune on lengthen, and it wasn't obvious, but I was like 99% certain that has to be her. So I sent her an email and I want to stay within 24 hours. I got a response back. So we went back and forth. I wanted to do a text based interview, and ultimately it became, Hey, let's roll the tape as I called her. So the quality is not great, but I did have a handful of questions and wow, she is a very generous person, just a beautiful, kind individual. And I started. I started with Demming. What in the world wasn't like working with Denning? How did that even come about?

spk_1:   2:48
And I was an English major, and I'm selling heavy industrial equipment based on service. I was the first woman. I was the experiment and like I couldn't fail no matter what. Had I couldn't fail so wonderful thing that happened, Waas. I had to listen all the time and I had to do more. And so I went in on all three shifts and I hung out with the hourly people and I got to know him. I am talking everybody from the plant manager to the mill, right? And they're all telling me the same thing. And you can see how bad the systems are because I I had no choice but to listen to people. I listened to everybody and they won't say the same thing to take Katie. You don't know how crazy it is here. And I'd say, yes, I do. It's just crazy everywhere. And then larger gaming was coming in the Orient, and it was just before he really went over the top and got super famous. Um, and you know, a S Q c and S t m and s, everybody. They pulled it and they got Demming to come. I don't really know much about him, but I knew all of my customers senior people from Caterpillar. Everybody was going, So I bought a ticket. I went and I'm in the back of the room. 350 people this big buffet and furious smoke everywhere and Dr Demings talking and I'm listening to him. And I'm thinking, this is the first person I've heard who understands what's happening in American industry.

spk_0:   4:11
So what was like Kate working with dimming? That was my next question,

spk_1:   4:17
and I just riveted. You know, this guy's got it and, ah, wonderful funny thing, which was so Deming. It was about a 30. Everybody's been drinking and eating and smoking and listening him, Dr Deming says. So I guess you're all getting a little tired, aren't we? And everybody kind of yeah, yeah, kind of reach for their coast him, Demi Moore. I'm not. And he went on for another hour and, you know, nobody could get believe. After was over. I went up to when I said, You know, I totally agree with you. Have our learn more. He had come to my seminars, so I have. My company has recently they said no. So I called Deming and said, I'm coming. My, my company won't send me. Is there anything I can do with your work I can do To help defray the cost and his assistant, she'll call me back and said he needs an assistance for the similar you're it and turn that What he wanted was he wanted somebody who said, I think my talks are better than my book, which was then kind of a big workbook. He said, I'd like you to sit here and listen to tell me the difference between our brother, Whatever. You know what I say So writing right up my alley. So after a while, after, I kind of got coast, I you know, I could help you. You know, you got the same paragraph of the spots and he said, I need your help, will you? And I said, Sure, I never quit my job still worked at Wheelabrator, and then I went on and did other things. But I would, uh I moved to D. C. And I would meet with him primarily every Sunday working, looking, and sometimes I go with him to four day seminars. G. None of those things. They're short questions. He was fascinating guy. He took up playing piano when he was 80. He never completely got over the rejection that he got in American industry. Pre Japan. One knows this because he would occasionally say to 400 executives. You know, 10 years ago you could have had me for $500 a day, and now it's 5000.

spk_0:   6:11
Now remember, she's the co author of Beyond IBM with late Luke Mobley, and I wanted to know what it was like working with with him.

spk_1:   6:22
Lou went to work for IBM in 1938. Um, he was drafted. He went and potted Aberdeen proving John's came back and went to work for Watson Senior. And he was Watson Senior tasked him with writing a business history of IBM way back when this is three. Watson Jr Watson Jr took over and put that on hold. So it's so interesting old business history thing that you mentioned anyway. What's in junior decide to move? Um, I'd be intellect tronics. In 1950 five, he put together a task force 15 people to move IBM into computers, and Lou is one of the 15 people, so I can tell you about what he did. Part of that. And then he moved into creating a management development system, and Lou created it. Then he founded and ran IBM Executive School in the executive school. Number of things are true. One of the things we would say is he figured out, um, that learning learning occurs at time of felt need and clear relevance. He did as much experiential learning as he could do. He would bring in people like he brought in drunker, and he brought in Paul Volcker when he's running the set in New York. And what Lou found over these cadres of executives that would come through his school was that they didn't understand finance.

spk_0:   7:41
So what came next?

spk_1:   7:43
And he felt that for the one he felt, you know, he'd seen that the finance guys were winning all the internal battles because the other guys can talk numbers. And Lou felt very strongly that for the long term health of IBM, he had to fix that. So he brought in everybody he could think of to try to, like, all Volker, to try to make the numbers intelligible. And it wasn't happening. So he figured he'd better figure out himself, figure out how to teach it, and that's when he figured out the Mobley matric.

spk_0:   8:12
Yep, that's the Paul Volcker and cash. In case you're curious. Now. I wanted to know how she came about working with Lou Mobley to begin with.

spk_1:   8:24
And there was a guy that I met, can't even remember. His name was John heaven, er and he said, There's this guy named Lou Mobley. Um, and he used to be a hot shot at IBM, and he's got this single, The Matrix you should call him. So I just moved to D. C. And I called him and, uh, he was the He was the smartest person I ever met. Um, his interests coincide with all of mine. Not only the business interests in the, you know, human business interest some, but also consciousness and energy. He knew Edgar Mitchell. You know, he also cared about those realms of life, which I also care about you. Um, he was just the most magnificent person, and he wanted to write a book. And I said, Well, I could write. So, uh, that's, uh, that that book came to be

spk_0:   9:17
now, Kate, she also knows this amazing. She even knows Verne Harnisch.

spk_1:   9:23
Arthur Lipper was the publisher of Venture magazine when it was the 1st 1st magazine for entrepreneurs, and Arthur had met loose somewhere 20 years before and body was interesting. So when we started moving forward with loose, and I wouldn't do some of the Molly Matrix and his son Chris had been working on a program that allows you to plug in your own numbers. Anyway, um, after, beyond IBM came out, Arthur Arthur offered to do the forward for beyond IBM, which he did, and he was mentoring Verne Harnisch, who founded wiII Ow back in the day. And so Vern said, Are you gonna go meet Kate? So he came over to my apartment and we started hanging out. I knew him in Washington D. C. A 1,000,000 years ago. Um, they were maybe 100 and 20 people in y eoe in those days, and I was fortunate to be one of them. Um, Verne? Yeah. So anyway, I gave a talk somewhere. I don't remember about Molly Matrix, and afterwards Burns said to me, You just taught me more about finance in 20 minutes than in all my MBA courses. So when Burns started to do his birthing of giants, um, of course at m i t. He asked me and Chuck Cramer, Chuck is dead now. Um, um actually Bob Block. Bob is a wonderful long story and Bob still with us, you know, same thing. He's still like Bob still with us. And Bob had a great interest in Mali Matrix and did many things with it to some degree on some of the rights to the whole interesting thing. But anyway involved Wonderful one of a person. So anyway, Bob, and then me and Chuck Cramer and, um, we taught there for, I know 10 years more maybe, And so I would I would go over a year. And, you know, I knew Vern and which was an M. I t is Endicott House. Need erotic. Was there Jack Stack every year? George Naddaff, Brad Feld. I can't even think about all the amazing people that Verne would get to come and talk for free at birth and Giants. And it was a wonderful program. He did, I think, for about 25 years. Um, so that's how we know Vern.

spk_0:   11:34
One of the things I appreciated about the book beyond IBM. When the Mobley matrix was taught one of the requirements they pull up financial statements of other companies, they would on Lee use financials that used the direct method again, the direct method of cash flow reporting

spk_1:   11:57
that was, You know, Lou wasn't talking about him. He wasn't worrying about open book management while he's alive, but he was desperately concerned that business people didn't understand the numbers. Um, we went and worked for a little while with fans be the next Comic Sanders board. They had a cash flow reporting task force. I quote him, M. C I and used their numbers on way was the CFL them? And Bill went on to found Carlyle Group, which is one of like the huge you know. And interestingly enough, Bill's father was the guy who brought Demming to Nashua, New Hampshire. It was still Bill Conway's dad really brought Demming to the United States. So when I was looking for When I want to demonstrate the Molly Matrix in the book, I needed to find somebody who was doing her a cash statement and the only big company that was the only one of the M. C. I.

spk_0:   12:51
Now the new project or one of her new projects is a book, and we'll have those in the show notes that you can download. It's a white paper, and it addresses education and continuous learning. Where she talks about one of her frameworks called Ram It,

spk_1:   13:13
I'm Fine said You can't fix the problems and given system with same level of thinking that caused them. Um, I think that our model for education, by and large, is still what I call the theory is ram it. You got to regurgitate, acculturated and memorize while you're isolated and threatened. In the end, it's you alone against the room, the structure and process of our current prevailing system. Education batch processing of human beings was a theoretical, permanent installation of content. That's still what we got in so much of this. You know, there's so there's all these wonderful new programs and lawless kind of stuff. If the injured goal is not to have kids do real things and do much mean, even rather have them somehow assimilate knowledge the bacon and pass a test, you're still doing ram It, I say, aren't next system level of education I call Spirit is a theory and spirit stands for strength, passions and interest, relationship, individuality and trust.

spk_0:   14:18
Now, when she talks about education, I brought up business owners and yep, they need continuous learning as well. And that's where she says, business owners they need ongoing appear support. That's how learning really begins to take off.

spk_1:   14:38
And it's what entrepreneurs really do. You do real things. You have ongoing to your support if you know about why you on Waipio. One of things that very Hickok said to me before he died is the best thing about why Theo is the forum, which is ongoing to your support. So yes, nice to fly around the world. You get

spk_0:   14:54
a

spk_1:   14:54
hot shot, all the dinners big deal that part about why he owns the form which is ongoing to your support. So first degree do real thing. Second, Evelyn going to your support third thing mentor and the mentor, um, fourth degree use technology to accomplish your purposes. Uh, this degree haven't ethos that lets your efforts be high leverage in low friction and cultivate serendipity because you know how that goes. So that's the structure of the next system level of education, which is what entrepreneurs do. So if you want to build economies, you know, we all know ever since David Burke in 1986 that big companies turned jobs. Entrepreneurs create jobs. So right now, RAM, it's a violent purposes to have everybody be a successful job seeker, which means you stamp out of them. What makes a successful job Creators and successful careers, which is spared at spirit, approached the world. Um, do you really think doing Community Center? Six degrees? And finally and I just told this to run recently, by the way, Mom in New York, Um and he said, I like that one. The process of real entrepreneurs. I call it the Four Ages of creators, hustle with honor, help and be helped.

spk_0:   16:13
And there's one other thing that Kate's working on. It's called dads. That would be danger alert dogs and Kate's gonna tell us more about that.

spk_1:   16:27
The the goal of Dad's Danger Alert Dogs is to put to protect in love and to put done sniffing dogs in schools and around schools and also loving dogs. Kids can talk thio and hang out with, and we call him Loving Handler's new idea. Um, it's basically I thought, Why don't we do this? I have rescued dogs. I'm a huge advocate of rescuing animals, um, and and having to be able to do something and never longed for anyway. We know enough now that you can rescue a dog. Um, figuring out the right dog trainer. You train that dog to sniff for gun in eight weeks?

spk_0:   17:13
Yeah. And did you hear talk about loving handlers?

spk_1:   17:18
And he will say things like sometimes the smallest thing can prevent an act of violence. And he really believes that if you've got people with dogs and a troubled kid, you're going to sit and talk to the dog. I'm a long, long story, but loving handler needs to trained in basically howto listen active, you know, not give advice until you go home and straighten up your act and just go be a listen. Bill actually believes that just the ability to have that on the premises could potentially reduce

spk_0:   17:53
course. Bill she's talking about So one that's on their board of Advisers board of directors. And I want to thank Kate. I mean, just remarkable. What are a remarkable human being? Um, I'm going to continue to stay in touch with Kate against usually co author of Beyond IBM. It is out of print, but you can find it. It's still being sold used. So I my copies used actually in pretty good condition. But of the book is beyond IBM by the Light Blue Mobley, who created the Mobley Matrix and Kate McCuen again. Thank you. Thank you very much, Kate. You are amazing. Hey, we need to come up with a name for this next segment. It's It's the two CFO's. That sounds too basic. Too simple, But it's me, and it's a guy name. Bruce on that is coming up next. They're always needs to be a fanfare when we get to introduce you. So we did not do that officially, Theo. Ladies and gentlemen, eyes, gentlemen, let's bursts. Read the chief financial officer for practice Link the number one position job board in the world. So

spk_1:   19:24
get that

spk_0:   19:24
right. Sorry for not doing that. That was a terrible introduction. So do the three names do that? I'll let you recover to the three names. Dan Sullivan, Kathy Colby.

spk_1:   19:39
Oh, yeah

spk_0:   19:39
and Ron Baker ring a bell

spk_1:   19:44
stand. Sullivan and Kathy Colby. Very familiar. Um,

spk_0:   19:49
if you're a maker, if you see is

spk_1:   19:52
not a familiar.

spk_0:   19:53
So you came up the ranks career wise in the corporate world. So had you spent a lot of time and, ah, the accounting profession. As in working for accounting firms, Maybe the name Ron Baker rings about Ron is written a lot of books on value pricing. Ah, he is the co hosts, one of my favorite podcast, probably my favorite. The soul enterprise. Love, love that show. So that's Ron Baker. So those three names, I started attending briefly. I only went for about a year. But there's guy named Gary Boomer, who is also an accounting influence. Or he's been named to whatever, lest the top 100 accountants in the US, along with Ron. So Gary is always way up there by team may have been, if not already, the head of the A I C E P A. Again, my fax could be off, but he started boomer consulting. I believe his son Jim is now running it. Gary is just a deep, deep thinker. Great thinker, reads deeply, reads widely. Ah, that's how I learned about those three names. I learned about him and learned about the strategic coach I learned about Dan Sullivan took the Kobe Kobe a profile because because of ah, the boomer organization in a course learned about Ron Baker. What? One of my favorite books, A TTE. The turn of the century was the firm of the future. So I want to bring that up because Bruce Boomer, Gary, run Eric article this week, and it's called Ah, from I t geek to executive from i t geek to executive. So I'm gonna put you on the spot. The guy of all the I t people you've worked with over the years past better not say current, but past Ah, yeah, I got to be careful in the past. How many would you say? Our CEO ready?

spk_1:   22:04
Yeah, that is on the spot. You know, I'd say there there were at least they released too. Um, to folks that I was associated with with with in the past, you know, somewhat distant past Who, um, rose out of the head. I t roll and into Ah, um senior leadership role. Um, Chairman, um, chairman of May department stores. So I have seen it, but I would say that in general, that's not one of those. That's not one of those career paths that just jumps right out at you

spk_0:   22:42
Gear and I agree with you, and I think we all have our opinions. Um, that'd be like asking in some cases, Would actuaries make great CEOs with certain accountants Make great CEOs? And you could probably say that for every ah profession. But Gary went on to say that they're seven distinctive areas where leadership needs to be worked on, and I would tweak the words a little bit, but I do like is less. Number one is communications were to come. We're in a cycle through these one by one. But he says communications is critical. Ah, business savvy is number two. Actually, I would probably have business savvy as number one. He's up marketing and sales is number three would probably break those two up. Number four is human. Resource is, and I would probably call it Culture number five is intriguing Project management. I would never put that on a list for CEOs. Now they need to be good action plans. But project management, that's usually they're gonna throw that work to people like you and I and other financial leaders. Number six is finance, which I agree with, and then strategy and planning. He would see puts the word and between strategy and planning. And Bruce, you know, I hate the term strategic planning. I think you're probably there too, but he puts the word and between strategy and planning that so he says those are the seven areas, distinct areas where I t leaders need to focus and hone their leadership skills. And before I go through those one by one, what are your first impressions? And by the way, we're gonna turn this into a financial leaders. We're gonna go from the geek because, ah, lot of financial leaders are also I would call geeks right now. You're not one, Bruce, but that list. Thank you. Well, that was to seven. What? What are your initial thoughts? Is that a good list of seven? If a financial leader is gonna make that leap to CEO,

spk_1:   24:56
you know it. I guess at first glance, you think I'd do so much more to it. But when you when you look at the you know what All the things that that covers and kind of, you know, digging down that next step, um, I I think it's I think the list is a I think the list is a pretty good one. Um, in there this year. I think it helps roll up those things like priority setting, um, team building, culture building. Um, you know that your your addition of culture to H R. I think is, um is important. So I think the list is, you know, that's a That's a big list. And, you know, I guess it's one of those things where you balance because nobody is always gonna be, ah, 100% in any particular areas. So I guess it's, you know, in which areas can there be, um, pretty good t be successful. What areas do you need to be pretty good in? And what are some of the what are some of the areas that are you must have?

spk_0:   25:58
I'm gonna t

spk_1:   25:59
looking at your perspective,

spk_0:   26:00
going to skip through some of these just for the because we have, ah, limited time number one Rose Communications and I would have said something, something to the fact you've got to be able to speak clearly concisely and then capably. And I just know a number of leaders I work with where they miss. It certainly does miss it on being clear concise and being in speaking both really capably, incredibly. And now it's not like you've had hundreds of jobs. But is it fair to say, and some of the larger organizations you've worked in, Where that that that type of communication was lacking? And I hate to lead the witness Bruce, but are you? Do you agree with that?

spk_1:   26:51
Yeah, I think that there's no when you're when you're so you're so close toe. You know, particular topics and kind of deep into technical technical information. Sometimes it's it's hard to lose track of the fact that, you know, he is as a as a a very senior senior most leader You've got to be. You've got to keep the you've got to keep the message very simple. It's gotta be very direct, and you've got to get comfortable with just repeating yourself over and over and over again. On the main message is to ensure that everybody is, um, is in alignment.

spk_0:   27:28
Number two, I think should be number one business savvy before I share my opinion. Why do you think financial leaders need to be business savvy? What does that mean to you, Bruce?

spk_1:   27:43
Well, to me and You know, I think if we're taking it from the standpoint of a nightie leader, you know, you gotta be able you got to know the difference between can I build it, And should I build it, or can I do this versus should we do this? And you know, I think sometimes with the tech leader, it'll be, You know, we're gonna We're gonna build what I know howto build, and then we're gonna bring the company along, so to make it the right thing to do, And I think it's that that script cat has to be flipped where it's are we gonna are we doing the things that are going to make a successful there and then and then working towards that versus the other way around?

spk_0:   28:27
So assuming this list is also for financial leaders, can I put you on the spot? Can I ask you, Bruce, are you business savvy?

spk_1:   28:36
Yes. Um,

spk_0:   28:38
by the way, by the way, for the audience, Bruce's Bruce is business savvy. I just want to make that clear.

spk_1:   28:46
Yeah, and when they're putting it in the terms of the financial leader and where that thing congee go where that thing could go sideways is you've got to understand the need and, you know, it's very you when you're looking at things like approval process is when you're looking at, um, oversight. When you're looking at how much you're going toe, no use the the budget word the dirty B word, um versus forecasts. You know, it's it's easy to get so wrapped up in in our numbers that you could lose. You can lose track of What are we all here to? D'oh? And, um, I think from, especially in a smaller business, it's you gotta you know, every leader has to has to focus on to do what's right to make the business successful, not just what they either done in the past or is, you know, is in a is a common practice or is a another. Another. They always hate to hear his best practice or best practice situation dependent. So is that in any role, you gotta you gotta have that business savvy to know kind of what good looks like

spk_0:   30:01
this. This may not be a good definition of business savvy, but you probably know that I I coach other CFO's who want to start a consulting practice who want to get in and get into the business of CF Boeing in my definition of a CFO. And by the way, this is the same definition I use when I'm out meeting with bankers or other business leaders. My definition of a CFO is you've got to be able to run that business for one year, one year. If the CEO takes off yet to run the business for one year, there's no degradation of sales, profits or value, which means you got to know marketing. You've got to know sales. You have no operations, and you need no customer support like the back of your hand. That, to me, is business savvy. Do you think that's too harsh, too broad to, ah to fill in the blank?

spk_1:   31:03
No, no, that's mean those air. That is the business. You know it did. I think sometimes it's easy again for CFO's to get wrapped up into their own importance, and at the end of the day, it's it's taken a good product, making sure people know about it and getting it delivered in a way that is, they keeps client teeth, client or customer satisfied.

spk_0:   31:29
I want to skip

spk_1:   31:31
that business. You know, financial reports are not business. It's just a scorecard,

spk_0:   31:38
right? The

spk_1:   31:39
other things you just describe that

spk_0:   31:41
I want to skip to the last item, because again, this whole less is outstanding. So because of time, we can't go to reach one of them. I mean, like, culture, which he calls human resource is we could spend hours on that again. I don't think project management belongs on this list. I mean, it's important, but someone else is gonna be doing it. I just I don't think this is a fit, and I have loved to ask him face to face. Why did you put that one in there? Finance, I think, is pretty straightforward. Especially if your finance leader you're gonna bring that to the table anyway. But number seven strategy in planning. I am so tired of all the books you and I read easily. 200 books a year between the two of us. And do you know how many books just on strategy come out every year? It's an insane amount. What can we just between the two of us and I'm gonna I'm gonna look to you, Bruce. give us a two or three or five word definition. A strategy? Oh, I put you on the spot.

spk_1:   32:54
Oh, man,

spk_0:   32:57
you owe me. Tee it up for you. Let me tee it up.

spk_1:   33:00
Get up.

spk_0:   33:02
I start with leadership and because they're so many books written on leadership, obviously there's good leaders. There's bad leaders. And then you have all these adjectives. The servant leader, the cash there. They're just boatloads of these definitions. But the leader says boys and girls were going that way. And so everyone hopefully is going in that direction. Now it's up to the leader to make sure everyone is going in that direction. We're going north. Ah, we're going south. To me, that's what the leader does now, once they know what direction they're going in now you need that strategy that says, Here's how we're going to get there. So my one word is not where you set in a conference room for 10 hours and you go off site and I'm not. I'm not bashing that there's value to that. But what I'm saying is strategy follows leadership and that we're going in this direction. They're going to be obstacles are gonna be barriers. I think if you re if you're a student of just wars of the past, that's what strategy is all about. It's overcoming what are gonna be those barriers as the leader saying We're going in that direction. So that's where I think that leader has to be so savvy and knowing what's that singular strategy that we're gonna live by for the next year or two years doesn't mean you won't adjust as you need to, But that's my Now, that was more than five words, but I said I would tee it up for you. Now you've got the mic, sir.

spk_1:   34:51
Yes. So I think it's, um you know, I think, uh, when I think a strategy, you know, I'm thinking of I'm thinking of the game plan. They're so in when you're looking at you, whether you're looking at a business business goal or a, um, you know, or in a on athletic setting or anything where you've got some time to think through how you're going to get to a certain point there, you you make some decisions and you make some commitments to how are we going to get there? So if are we gonna you know, isn't gonna be a highly Is the strategy gonna be highly dependent on marketing? Is there going to be highly dependent on sales? Um, there and then it sze wrapping those large, um, you know, left wrapping those large, um, larger scale game plans into maybe some sub strategies and then and then bringing in tactics toe actually actually achieve those things? Um, they're so it's you've got to be ableto be able to do that. You've got to be able to decide, as you mentioned where Where do you want to go? I have to, I think, as the leader, you've got to be honest with where your capabilities are. Gotta be honest with yourself. With what? You know, in some cases, what do you want to dio? What is gonna what's gonna be what's gonna be right for the organization there? What are we going toe you? What are we capable of doing? Do we need to make adjustments to increase or differentiate those capabilities? And then it's communicating again and who kind of back to that first word? It's in a simple manner, being able to communicate things that that in reality could be very complex, but she the leader's got to be able to generate that level of simplicity to ensure that every single individual in the organization those here's where we're going. This is the way we get there. And if when you're in that individuals making their decisions, if the if the strategy and the communication has been successful, then you anybody in the organization can can craft of thought in a decision that's gonna be to some degree in alignment with with that overall strategy.

spk_0:   37:26
Good stuff. I like this conversation. We need to wrap up. And I want to ask the question. I will ask you every week for the rush. Your life. Well, we'll see how far we get. What book are you gonna be reading this week? Bruce?

spk_1:   37:43
I am going back to a re read of working together.

spk_0:   37:48
Oh, no. Did you know that's a my probably my top. I'm gonna get specific. Probably my top 12 or top 13 is at the book by Louis. Yep. Now, how did you find out about the book, sir?

spk_1:   38:06
Oh, you. It was you.

spk_0:   38:10
It

spk_1:   38:10
was you.

spk_0:   38:11
I did not know. You read that, Did you? like it did. D Do you see why I like that book?

spk_1:   38:17
Yes. Yeah. I mean, it's definitely one where you can. I mean, I think you can dip in and out. You know, you can just really read the headline topics of each of the sections. And no, um, you know, and get a little bit smarter. Um, there, but digging into it um, yeah, that would have been a, um I'm gonna give that one another. Another

spk_0:   38:40
reason. Great. I think I've read it three times, and I always keep it close at hand. For those who may not be familiar with the title, just a quick back story. Alan Mulally is one of my favorite all times CEOs. He ran Ford during really just a tumultuous time period. Um, I mean, he didn't bring him out of near bankruptcy once, but twice. And he's the one in front of Congress who said, I don't want your money and of course, GM did take it. But Malawi and Ford said, No, we don't need it. And they were the first to come out of that great recession, and it took him about a year, but they were back in the black cash reserves now. Before Ford, he worked for Boeing, and he was a one of the division presidents. I may have the title wrong, but he was, I think, one of the divisions. He had a top position, and the reason I'm going off Malawi is he used the concepts of working together Ah, at both positions. And Louis, the guy who wrote the book. And this book, by the way, is out of print. You could buy used. And he is a project manager. He is a project manager savant. But yet he learned some of these great principles. Working together was also used that that that framework that teaching was used during the tar the Ford Taurus launched back in the 19. I think 19 eighties when the most successful US launches ever in automotive history, at least in the U. S. So it away just the backstory and again great, great book. I'm We're gonna talk about that when you get done with it. Ah, my two quick reads this week. Um, the audio. I'll start with audio. Um, cognitive distortion, cognitive distortion, I think. I think, um, Angela Angela, who wrote the book grit A duck worth, Angela? Yeah, I think she'd be nodding her if she has not read this book. I bet she'd say Yep. You need to read this to be a good compliment to her book Grit. But feeling good is about cognitive distortion. It's when the brain says, you know, you're a jerk. You're you're You're saying all these negative things to your to yourself. So I found that book by accident and is actually visiting with a couple of, ah people in the real estate industry, uh, who read a lot. And this book came up, and it's like they were very, very impressed. And it sounds like it's gonna be book they want to read. And then I got a book. I don't know if I have permission to say his last name, So just say his name is Eric Down in Springfield, Missouri. Great great great Financial advisor, Planner. He's helped me on several projects. He's with Raymond James. He sent me a book just just out of the blue. It's called Jackie. A Boy and a Dog by Mark D. Bruce. And it's a very warm, Um, it looks like a great story. So I'm gonna try to binge read it over the weekend and get it done so we can talk about it. But that's it's it's gonna be my read for the next couple of days. So that's what's on tap for me. So, Bruce, I think we need to go. And again, Thanks for joining, and we will be back at you guys next week. And, Bruce, you have anything else you want to add before we say so long?

spk_1:   42:20
No, I appreciate Thea. I appreciate the opportunity to think about this topic and to get the talk on a little bit and we'll look forward toe. Look forward to getting back together next week and learn more about cognitive distortion and what else? Whatever else you got going on,

spk_0:   42:38
I want to thank my guests today. That was Kate McCuen, the co author of Beyond IBM and also a special thanks to Bruce again. Bruce Reed, the CFO practice link dot com and that's a wrap for CFO. Bookshelf will see an extra week. Guys